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From The Wheels Down (Pics Added)

#1 User is offline   Jonathan English 

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:57 PM

So I've decided instead of selling my project to continue until the end of this year and see where I get.... Hopefully far!! Anyway I basically have a shell with no wheels. I wanna turn it into a rolling shell however as it will have a v8 going in it with potentially 250+ bhp (hoping for 300ish) I dont want it to fall apart! Where can I buy uprated suspension down essentially also what would be required to get the old girl rolling

Thanks,

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonathan English: 23 March 2017 - 03:09 PM

See you in the shed!

#2 User is offline   brokenmachine 

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:39 AM

I'm glad you're giving it another try. My own Capri projects have been going for over a decade and haven't really started... all in my head.

Realistic goals / plans will help progression, as will plotting out what needs to be done for each major step in the project.

Burtons still do uprated parts for a Capri but you may have to consider the changes you are yet to make. For example, the weight of your engine may affect suspension choice.

What are the benefits to having it rolling? If it's primarily for ease of working and access, then perhaps right now, any suspension and wheels will do? If you have a lot of work to do on the shell, old suspension and wheels may be able to stay on during any transporting / blasting / painting... where as fancy suspension and nice wheels would probably be better removed during those operations.

Your suspension choice may also be affected by your wheels and vice versa. If you want bigger disc brakes / bigger calipers, or bigger wheels in general, you have to match those to the right struts and springs.

If your shell is completely bare, then you're going to need struts, springs, stub axles, front cross member, steering rack and TCA's... and a rear axle, rear springs, rear dampers and brake setup if you wanted to also use the handbrake to securely park the vehicle. You could probably acquire a lot of it from breakers, especially if you weren't bothered about having perfect stuff or the "higher spec" 2.8 / 3.0 parts.


However, if your vehicle still needs lots of stripping and preparation, and you have an indoor space to store it... a vehicle rotisserie may actually be a better option than any suspension at all.

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#3 User is offline   Crash & Burn 

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:26 AM

I agree, glad you're keeping at it. The rotisserie thing or something similar makes sense, if you can do the shell first. I had all my underside stuff (tank & suspension) shining brilliantly until I got the shell painted, and the overspray got everything. At least I know it's all nice in there somewhere, but not that much of it shows any more. Some rolling dolly might be as good as mounting all the suspension now. As for the job generally, know what you want to build, get a finish line in your head so you know when you're done, and do something every few days to get you closer to that point. End of the year, see how it worked. :thumbup1:


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#4 User is offline   Jonathan English 

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:40 PM

I wish i was cleverer, i assume there is nowhere out there where i can but a ford capri 302 v8 fitting kit that includes everything.... mounts.... crossmembers and the like that just bolts/welds on and be done with it?! tis so hard when your a noob!

the Shell is currently completely stripped, and has been shot blasted... the underside has then been waxoyled... now its sat on my driveway until the black one goes from the barn and then i can swap them over (25th of march boom).... plans is to tidy the bodywork, this included filling areas and prepping for painting.... one problem i have at the minute is that the fibreglass xpack kit that is on it is starting to detach itself at the ends any ideas on a repair for this? is there a glue or something that can be used?... then its time to spray it, its after this that i would like to get it rolling.... basically i have everything required to do the painting compressor spray gun paint tack cloths pop up spray booth etc. its all bought and ready to go. However once its painted i would like to be ready to get the old girl rolling so would like to have everything for this ready to get cracking!

once shes rolling i would like to be able to start putting it all back together. with regards to the 302 v8 i want to get it rebuilt (found a guy not to far away who can do this) at the same time i would like to get it upgraded (in the region of £5k ish for rebuild fitting and parts which he claims will get around 300bhp hence the discovery axle for torque and stuff) then in need of custom headers and exhaust.

Sounds so so easy in my head (apart from getting the money together) in my head its like prep one weekend spay the next fit engine take for a spin but the reality is im not clever enough to be able to do that and its no doubt gonna take me years! but im impatient and want it done yesterday grrr vicious cycle really

With regards to the weight of the 302 i am not sure... i do however have a fibreglass bonnet which i was hoping will offset a lot of the extra weight, i was hoping to use adjustable suspension (maybe by GAZ) where possible.

My cousin has an old rear axle from an old discovery hanging around so my plan was to use this for the rear does anyone know how this would be done??

anyone wanna come and work on it let me know :)

See you in the shed!

#5 User is offline   Crash & Burn 

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:36 PM

Sitting here, it's hard for me to really take in all you say, but it tempts me to think you might be making it harder than it needs to be. If you're upgrading to a 302, it shouldn't need any beefing up, will have enough of a difference to suit. If you had all the parts sitting there now, all clean and painted and the bolts sitting next to them, would it really take only a few weekends? You're getting more clever as you think and tell about what's needed, and may not know it yet. Everyone who does their own goes through this same process, and you can be successful. Keep that thought in with the rest. The order of things is coming clearer, now take the steps one at a time, get the proper advice from here, and conquer the world! You started with a real enthusiasm and have run into some challenges, but not the kind that should take that spirit away from you. You'll be thrilled when it's done and we want to see that.


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#6 User is offline   brokenmachine 

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 02:57 PM

I'm presuming your body kit is bolted or riveted. This creates a stress points at each fixing. Load / twist / vibration comes through these points. For body kits and fragile parts (like boot load compartment panels) this can mean they crack around those points or it causes separation elsewhere as the panel distorts. A glue or bonding solution around the entire perimeter would provide a better fit, provided panel isn't distorted). 3M make some products for this but I don't know specifics, sorry! Bonding the entire perimeter spreads any load over all of it. Make sure there are decent flanges to bond rather than tiny lips or different angles.

I would suggest, if you have a large flat surface, take the body kit off and check for distortion. If you can't see any with it on a flat surface, smooth off any mounting surfaces on the panel and car then offer each panel up and see where it fits and doesn't. Evaluate if that's because od the car panel, body kit panel as a whole, or purely the mounting flange of the body kit panel.

I am pretty sure there's other Ford 302 v8 topics in Members Cars or on other Capri forums. Have a search and see how they've done things. You don't have to copy, you don't have to do it different... just a great source of information and it might help you comprehend the inbetween part from what you want to do and it becoming reality.

In my head, my cars come apart and go back together and get upgraded so quickly and easily. When I actually stand in front of them, I don't know WTF to do with any of it. :) :(

You've actually made tremendous progress so far with what you've described. I totally understand the conflict between desire to do and not knowing how. You have the potential though, and although your car doesn't seem far along at a glance, you've got great foundations there on which to build and a lot of effort invested in it.

Having read another topic of yours, you have another Capri with running gear. When you come to move one out of the barn, maybe you can figure out where to store them both and transfer the running gear over temporarily - would save you money for now but make the current project mobile. I've had to pull out an assembly of front suspension, cross member and steering joint to swap between cars sometimes just to move them around. Definitely need a second pair of hands!

If the lack of mobility is one of the hold ups, then it might help.

If you don't know how well your engine works, building that up on a stand, or test running it on a home-built set of mountings would be a good idea and may fill in time if you can't do work on other parts :)

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#7 User is offline   CliCon357 

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 06:01 PM

I found this a Godsend as I have no back axle on one of mine. It came sitting on the leafs:

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#8 User is offline   Jonathan English 

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:59 PM

Thanks for all the responses guys.... here are some pics of what i am working with....

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In the image below you can sort of see where the bodykit has come away thats what i need to fix its the same the other side just not sure how....


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This post has been edited by Jonathan English: 23 March 2017 - 03:03 PM

See you in the shed!

#9 User is offline   Jonathan English 

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 03:08 PM

I don't no what you guys think but she does look really good bodywise there no holes or bits that need welding that i can see... quite a bit of surface rust though.... all being well she will be in the barn this weekend! With regards to the running gear..... I have kind of sold the black capri to a guy that wanted the running gear lol my theory was im replacing it all so i don't need it therefore i will need to repurchase it all. just don't know where to start with it or what i would need... i.e. what suspension... what springs, hubs ,brakes, wheels, leaf springs, axle (have access to a discovery one but maybe there is something that will be easier to fit/make work?), also what wheels might look good, tyre's etc. If anyone out there knows a lot i could do with a bolt by bolt run down of what i will require and where i can get it all so i can start looking at prices for it all.

thanks for all help and any comments

Jonny

See you in the shed!

#10 User is offline   Crash & Burn 

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 04:20 PM

Can you get that blasted? Would save you a big lot of time trying to sand it all, and does look like it would come out nice. Plenty to do getting to that point with no running gear needed, and while it happens things will come available. A nice shell will attract what it needs, like moths to a lamp.


#11 User is offline   302Capri 

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 05:10 PM

Jonny I got your message there. Im happy to help where I can. That looks like a decent shell and its good to hear it is going under cover soon.

I think the first thing to do, regardless of future plans, is to stop that surface rust. My method of choice is the angle grinder with a strip-it disc. They don't heat the panels up if you keep them moving and don't stay in one spot for any length of time - this prevents the panels from warping. These discs make short work of removing paint and rust. I would then treat the raw surface with rust convertor, even if you cant see any rust. The finally spray on some 2 pack epoxy primer. If you don't have a spray gun you can get 2-pack cans these days with a built in container of activator so it is true 2pack. Once you have a coat or two of the epoxy primer on it, the body will be protected and won't continue to rust. It looks like there may be primer on the shell already but if it is regular primer it will let water penetrate and surface rust will start - so you may have to strip the whole shell. If so, just do it in sections until you get it completed.

Whats the shell like underneath? Any rust? If so then you are best to get yourself a rotisserie so you can access underneath and deal with the rust properly.

I couldn't quite see where the xpack was separating - is it on the wheelarch section of the rear wings? Keep in mind that someone has added wheelarch extensions or flares to the xpack to make it even wider than usual. If I am correct it is those add-ons that are coming away from the actual xpack. Can you get some closeups of the area? And also of the underside of the arches to see if the original steel arches were cut away correctly. Fingers crossed it was done well.

Suspension - keep it simple. You are best to use original Capri suspension. Preference would be to use 2.8 Capri items all round as they were really the best available from the factory, but suspension from any model will get it rolling. You may need slightly heavier springs in the front but these aren't expensive - start with standard ones. Brake upgrades are readily available too. A standard Atlas axle will be strong enough to handle the 302 if you aren't drag racing it. The Discovery axle will be more trouble than it is worth trying to get it to fit and I imagine it would be very heavy.

Engine - to get the engine to fit you will need a rear or double hump sump. Can you post a pic of your engine? If you stick with a carburetor you will save money on fuel tank and wiring.
Mounting the engine will require making up custom mounts. The standard Capri engine xmember is generally used, but most people tend to cut off the factory engine mounts from the xmember and then weld on mounts to fit the 302. It is also preferable to cut away any of the radiator mount sheetmetal from the front of the engine bay. This gives space for the engine and more importantly space for a larger radiator.

What gearbox are you planning to use? The best option for manual gearboxes is the T5 as fitted to Mustangs. They bolt straight to the 302 and fit in the Capri tunnel. You will need to make a custom mount for it or modify a Capri one.

Exhaust will be mostly custom - use the factory 302 manifolds if possible to keep to a budget.

How much is left of your other Capri? Are you sure you want to sell it as it seems like it could be a very good donor for you.

You have a lot of work ahead of you, keep the questions coming. And send some more pics!

Steve.


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#12 User is offline   Jonathan English 

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 09:15 AM

Hi Steve,

Thanks so so much for your reply... the underside of the shell seems to be perfect its where the guy that owned it before me got to.... essentially he wanted an x-pack so he stripped hi 2.8 all the way down. he then had it all shot blasted, once he had that don he had all welding done where required he has then waxoyl'd the underside so from what i can see its all perfect on the underside! thank goodness... the reason i bought the shell was because i cant weld so wanted one that had essentially had everything done... and from what i believe this is that shell.

The x-pack isn't separating as you say its the wings... until the other day i thought they were part of the x-pack... but yea its the fibreglass arches on the x-pack that are coming away... i really wanna keep them though purely because in all my trawling of the web i haven't seen one that's done this? I am over at the capri this evening so will try and get some pics if its not to dark if not i will get some tomorrow.

With regards to the suspension i'm not to fussed if its the standard 2.8 stuff or up-rated my problem is that i only really want to do it once... i.e. i don't want to buy the 2.8 stuff... use it for a bit... take it all off and do it all again... in my head i just want to buy the suspension, brakes hubs etc. fit it all and then not have to worry about it again. or am I thinking about this stupidly?

I have some rubbish pics of the engine but i can take some more this evening. Heres what i have...

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The engine bay from what i can tell has a modified slam panel and the radiator supports cut out to allow more room for a bigger radiator. The engine i beleive is from a lincoln :(/>/> its basically a toned down 302 like literally the worst one they ever made from what i gather... my plans is to spend around 3-5k on upgrades ideally i would like to see around the 250-300bhp (preferably more just for laughs) the main reason however for the V8 is the sound.... i cannot wait to hear it!!!!

The gearbox that came with the engine is this...

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I cannot find to much information about it... I THINK... and this is based on googling any numbers i can find on it (as above) that its a C3 or a C4.... Ideally like you say i would like a manual, however i would need one that can take the torque and extra power of the engine once modified will a T5 still be suitable (also i cant find any for sale online that may be suitable), again this brings me to the axle, will an atlas axle handle the extra power/torque for simplicity i would love to use one?

The plan for the exhaust was to have it all custom made from a company (unsure who) once fitted from the headers back all stainless.

The other capri has been stripped of everything except the running gear and wiring loom... so essentially its a rolling shell with a wiring loom (the wiring loom has been hacked about a lot so figured its not worth salvaging). Everything thats come out of it interior, trimmings dash doors etc. will be going on to the shell above so it has donated alot :)/>/> . my thinking was that i would replace everything else (running gear) so just got rid of it... I was going to sell everything i had capri related (including this shell and all the other parts along with the engine and gearbox) and get a working project that could be usable and just modified/upgraded as and when but my wife kinda convinced me not to and to see how we get on this year... i'm still not convinced we will do much but i really hope we do! shame we cant just click our fingers hey!

Its also the work ahead that scares me i half restored a classic mini a few years back... but this is so much more as you can see it wasnt a bad base to start with!

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thanks for any and all help and comments, you guys are amazing balls.

This post has been edited by Jonathan English: 24 March 2017 - 09:55 AM

See you in the shed!

#13 User is offline   302Capri 

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 12:01 PM

Jonny, the more I think about the challenge you have ahead of you, the more I am thinking that a complete donor car is what you need. Your shell looks good, and its a bonus that is is a V6 shell (I hope you have the paperwork for it to get it in your name?), but it is a totally bare shell. You need to fit absolutely everything! This is a big task and there are thousands of parts needed. If you have to buy all the bits individually it will be a slow, tedious and costly process. If you have 2 shells side by side you can swap parts across easily and you will have everything you need and be able to see how things fit. If you can find a complete car at a good price, that is either accident damaged or too rusty to repair then you will save a heap of time and a lot of money in the long run. You will then end up with some left over bits you can sell on to recoup some costs.

Look closely at those wheelarch extensions that have been added to the xpack. If they are coming away then my guess is that they weren't put on correctly. Are they fibreglass or just big lumps of filler? They may be more trouble then they are worth - hopefully the xpack wasn't damaged when they added those extensions.


Nice job on the Mini, it looks like a great transformation!


Steve


#14 User is offline   Paulg 

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 12:11 PM

ASM are breaking a 2.8i. maybe they would sell the whole car for you to use as a base. You could then resell what you don't use.

http://breakers.asm-...breaking-tyres/

Nice job on the Mini by the way, looks good.


#15 User is offline   Jonathan English 

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 12:20 PM

The car is all in my name and i have the log book, i also have all the vin plates and stuff at the guy kept them all when he took it off the road... the reason i have had to get rid of the black one is because i don't have room for 2 the black one has come out of the barn so that the white one can go in. Everything from the black capri has been removed and can be bolted onto the white one once it prepped and painted. Its all stored at the minute ready for refitting. so apart from wiring loom and modified structural bits it should all be there mostly.

The more i think about the project the more i think its to much for me to take on... i no the chances are i will never finish it so maybe it is worth me just selling it on and getting another project of some description.

My heads all over the place :confused1:

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#16 User is offline   brokenmachine 

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 12:44 PM

Right now there's a lot of ideas and opinions and questions floating around. You're looking at an empty she'll and not entirely clear of each particular step in the process to make it a complete car that runs and looks good. You will define those steps. Take a step back for a day or so... think of other things or just relax, then look again.

I personally disagree with buying a donor car, because you've already done that really. You have all the trim, glass etc that came from it. Yes you'll have to follow specific procedures for reassembly and probably buy some new bolts / clips / screws... but there are workshop manuals and lots of members have documented strip downs / re-asembley. This isn't to say other people's ideas aren't equally valid, just expressing my own <3

Sometimes I get so caught up in everything that HAS to be done and everything I WANT to do that I can't prioritise or be concise.

You need it moved inside ASAP - so even putting it on a pallet and dragging it with something would accomplish that.

You need running gear and 2.8i spec will probably do the job - it's not hard to find or to buy new. You could enquire with people, with Burton if you want new stuff, or the wider Internet. People can help with parts lists / fitting / pics :)

When you look at everything it will seem like a massive job, because it is. But when you break it down into sections and procedures, you can focus on the smaller amount of work. So... One job at a time... and if it seems like too big a job, you probably need to split it up into more steps :)

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#17 User is offline   Bruce_19 

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 01:20 PM

Jonny,

I am similar to yourself but my car is rolling but it came as a blank canvas but needs a little welding.

I kept looking too far ahead and wanting it completed now but now I have calmed down a little and have drafted a plan to follow which will hopefully keep me motivated.

I have broken it down and wrote is on board in the shed so I can see what has been done and what still has to be done. This will hopefully keep me focused on what's next and not jumping 3 or 4 steps ahead like I have been doing.

It should also help keep control of the funds as I shouldn't spend money ahead of time.

List down what all you need and see if you can get it into a workable order and try working too it to see if that helps keep you motivated.

All the best with the build.

Bruce


#18 User is offline   Jonathan English 

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 08:58 AM

Thanks again for your comment guys means alot! think with you all guiding me along the way i may be able to get it done!!! i was looking on burton powers website and started making a basket....

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Can you guys tell me what i have missed? i know its missing a cross member and rear axle... also i couldnt find rear brakes on there website but i would like these to be discs! also need whatever got to the rear suspension top mounts? sorry im very noobie just wanna get a list of everything together to get the old girl rolling. Im really surprised its only a 3k! thought it would be a lot more but thats probably because ive missed loads!

thanks gents

See you in the shed!

#19 User is offline   Jonathan English 

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 01:55 PM

As promised please see below for pics of the wheel arches if you have any ideas or advice please let me know.....

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This post has been edited by Jonathan English: 27 March 2017 - 01:57 PM

See you in the shed!

#20 User is offline   CliCon357 

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 07:29 PM

Wasn't there, on here, albeit a while back a discussion about genuine Ford dealer fitted X-packs vs aftermarket ones? If I remember correctly it mentioned that if the X-packs were simply bonded on all was good BUT if affixed using metal rivets or screws this created "hot spots" under the paint when exposed to very warm, sunny days. These spots showed up through the paint and made the fibreglass brittle.

Or did I dream this?

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