Fire Warning - 2.8 Injection Relays.

Discussion in 'Capri Chit Chat' started by weedling, 3 October 2014.

  1. weedling

    weedling Registered Capri Power Member

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    Just thought I would post a warning to any of you with 2.8s.
    One of my 280's that I don't drive often but start regularly had no running issues before hand but the other day she started to play up.
    While sat in it I smelt burning, and after loosing a 280 through fire I stripped it down sharpish to find the problem.

    [​IMG]

    The culprit was the relay and it was running really hot that it had started to melt the outer casing.
    I've heard of this happening before, where they get a broken contact inside, but just to make sure I done a few other checks.
    Although the car had no other running issues the pump was drawing a lot of power, and was dragging which was drawing extra current which in turn must have cooked the relay.
    So new genuine pump and relay were ordered.
    Fords also still do the original pink relays, they are £20 odd quid dearer than the black repro's that you can buy on ebay, but I always prefer to use original parts if possible.
    Finis code is 6 107 322
     
  2. rossored86

    rossored86 Registered Capri Power Member

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    good post mate ---many many years ago the embarrassing no start was down to that damn pink relay --changed and upgraded all my wiring to as thick as what will go to the pump and earth etc and under the inner sill cover (mine goes via under carpet edge but protected with washer hose type outer protection) and intio the rear edge trim in conduit.

    also fitted a pump by pass which means i can run the pump direct for priming / testing (in line fuse of course)

    again --good post
    cp
     
  3. Clockwork Orange

    Clockwork Orange Glasgow Subway- Keeping it simple since 1896 Staff Member Moderator

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    one thing to watch - with all the relays on that belt rail attached to the side panel ..
    for some reason - as standard, Ford mounted the relays with the wiring connectors on top, relays underneath ...
    now as you may notice, the relays all tend to be built with a 1-piece cover, and the terminals/guts plugged in ... that 1 piece cover is in effect a cup, or a bottle, and if you mount it with the wires at the top, moisture can and will gather inside the cup... water/moisture & electricity = faults ...
    any Capri I work on, or any relay that I fit (refit) I always ensure that the wiring tails enter the relay from the bottom ... and in fact that is the way they were designed
    that way the cup becomes an umbrella!!! moisture tends to attack from above.. windscreen seal, crap scuttle, blocked drainage etc ...

    and Yes .. I dont, have never owned a 28i .. but I have fixed a few in my time, and its amazing how many fuel relays are full of a rather nasty coloured moisture when I get there !!

    so .. its all good being totally original, but .. if you have a capri ... check & refit all your relays as necessary the correct way up.. not the way the Ford supplied them !!!
     
  4. Laser

    Laser Laser Staff Member Moderator

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    pinned its important !
     
  5. fordperv

    fordperv Registered Capri Power Member

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    Exactly the same problem as escort rs turbos
     
  6. north28

    north28 Registered Capri Power Member

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    i own a 2.8 cheers for that
     
  7. Rsam280

    Rsam280 Registered Capri Power Member

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    Where is this located? Also as Fordperv points out its the same relay that burns out on Escort RS Turbos, im sure its a sign the pump may be on its way out as well? Cant remember for sure not had a turbo for years!
     
  8. 302Capri

    302Capri Registered Capri Power Member

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    I will be adding this relay soon as part of my BOA conversion. Is there an additional fuse or wiring layout recommendation to improve on the factory setup?
     
  9. Clockwork Orange

    Clockwork Orange Glasgow Subway- Keeping it simple since 1896 Staff Member Moderator

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    The fuel pump relay is located on the drivers side of the car, upper footwell area, usually clipped onto a mounting rail just above the hood release .. above your fast foot, below the eyeball vent!

    The wiring itself is actually quite robust ... fairly heavy wires as built served from under the bonnet from the engine bay NOT from the loom in the cabin ... there is a main power feed, into a modern blade fuse holder providing full battery power, and there is the ignition controlled trigger, and the rev counter wire pick up that gives the safety required of a high pressure fuel system ...

    The fault in general that manifests itself is not due to the load created by the pump on weak wiring, but in fact most generally its the lightweight printed circuit within the relay housing which does heat slightly (its an electric coil after all) and the influence of dampness / moisture gathering within the relay canister, and that is usually down to the relay being mounted the wrong way with the wiring connector on top .. whereas the correct way would be to have the relay clipped onto the rail, with the wiring connector attached from underneath ... I have never seen the actual wiring being damaged, its always the relay that fails ...

    and the circuit is ...
    [​IMG]

    please note, my little ditty under the drawing refers to my use off the circuit in various 'other' projects ... the wiring in a 28i is of course totally standard
    and the fuse size shown is for my project (standard fuel pump) I believe the standard 28i is fused at 20Amp...
    also,
    TBH I have found that the Durite version of the relay (0-723-11) that is available from most electrical factors is a much more robust relay to employ
    this replaces-
    Ford 82GG9P704AA, 6107322 ..
    Lucas FDB503
     
  10. 302Capri

    302Capri Registered Capri Power Member

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    Thanks for the detailed response. Most appreciated!
     
  11. Rsam280

    Rsam280 Registered Capri Power Member

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    Thanks as usual clockwork!
     
  12. Freelanderfan

    Freelanderfan Registered Capri Power Member

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    Will turn all my relays right way up, thanks for info, mine was melted, have changed this along with new fuel pump, don't want this to happen again. Cheers, Rob.
     
  13. blacktulip

    blacktulip Registered Capri Power Member

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    Will this explain my issue then? My 2.8 is running sluggish and doesn't always start. It will turn then refuse to start up, I have to get the jump leads out. Sometimes when it turns it clunks then will not start all. Other days it starts with no issues. Any advise as I am seriously considering selling it.
     
  14. Clockwork Orange

    Clockwork Orange Glasgow Subway- Keeping it simple since 1896 Staff Member Moderator

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    I would say no .. by your fault description, you have a badly tuned issue first ... if the fuel pump relay was faulty - your car would not run at all, as no fuel would be getting delivered .. you could still check that its good and installed properly tho', then move on to the usual 28i route ...
    clunking starter - dirty connexions, check the main lead at Battery and starter, check the earth strap at each end, Battery, engine block, wee wire to body shell ... get those wires and surfaces clean and tight ...
    is the battery actually good, and is it being charged correctly?
    then -
    valve clearance, timing, fuel handling and ignition ...
     
  15. logan2005

    logan2005 Registered Capri Power Member

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    I had a problem like yours I got a new altenater then I found out I had a blocked fuel ingecter.
     
  16. Not_Anumber

    Not_Anumber Registered Capri Power Member

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    As preventative maintenance is there any practical way of checking if a fuel pump or relay are likely to be on their last legs other than waiting for one of them to fail ? Does anyone know what would count as excessive current draw for the pump for instance ?
     
  17. Clockwork Orange

    Clockwork Orange Glasgow Subway- Keeping it simple since 1896 Staff Member Moderator

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    Pump - is it getting noisy?
    if theres no excess noise or whining chances are its good ..
    there is a fuse in the system, if you haven't had to replace it then theres been no excess current draw, so again no perceived problem
    the relay itself -
    1/ check its mounted the correct way up .. can on top, wires/connector entering from below ..
    2/ any marks on the relay sides .. burning / overheating / discolouration .. I would keep an eye on that.. get a good known undamaged spare and keep it (with a fuse!)
    in case you have to replace it ..
     
  18. Not_Anumber

    Not_Anumber Registered Capri Power Member

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    My fuel pump relay packed up at the weekend. Thanks to the advice on here I found the fault immediately and repaired the relay in no time. Removing the casing revealed a faulty solder joint on the pcb that connected the mini relay on the pcb to it's external connection (87), the output to the fuel pump. It was quickly resoldered and I checked the other joints on the pcb.
    I could see how this is prone to heat and as I like to improve things when i repair them I added an additional jumper wire, above the pcb, direct from the inside of contact 87 to the body of the mini relay itself, duplicating this connection so the same fault cant happen again.
     
    Last edited: 28 July 2020
  19. eau de cologne

    eau de cologne Registered Capri Power Member

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    I intend to install a mercury switch would that be before or after the relay to the pump.

    Bert
     
  20. Clockwork Orange

    Clockwork Orange Glasgow Subway- Keeping it simple since 1896 Staff Member Moderator

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    What is the mercury switch for?
     
  21. eau de cologne

    eau de cologne Registered Capri Power Member

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    Kill the pump in the event of an accident, I have one out of an XR4i.

    Bert
     
  22. Clockwork Orange

    Clockwork Orange Glasgow Subway- Keeping it simple since 1896 Staff Member Moderator

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    That’s what the fuel pump relay does
     

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