Mk3 3.1 S Xpack Question

Discussion in 'Capri Chit Chat' started by r2d2hp, 11 October 2013.

  1. r2d2hp

    r2d2hp Registered Capri Power Member

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    Hi All,

    Can someone give me some idea on the value of a genuine Mk3 3.1 SX Capri. Car seems to be structurally sound but needs tiding up.

    XPACK fitted by Ford as was the LSD, 3.1 conversion and triple carbs, 7.5" 4 spoke. Was over 9k new as per bill of sale

    And then what would it be worth if in A1 condition. Would it be a wise investment?

    thanks
     
  2. steads

    steads Steadspeed Restorations Staff Member Moderator Trader

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    Reg you can't leave that like that mate thats just plain mean, so after a long hard think.....I have decided it would better to releave you the burdon and I'll store in my shed instead... :boxedin:
     
  3. r2d2hp

    r2d2hp Registered Capri Power Member

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    Hi Trev

    Its someone I know who owns it so was just trying to guage its current value. While its does need some tidying it does not look too bad at all. Believe its was built for Ford as a demonstrator. Am going to give it a good look over next week

    regards
    Reg
     
  4. steads

    steads Steadspeed Restorations Staff Member Moderator Trader

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    Hi Reg,

    Oooooo Interesting!!! Very interesting!!!!! Pm on its way!!
     
  5. TerenceBower

    TerenceBower Registered Capri Power Member

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    When you consider £2500 for the carbs/manifold alone---------
     
  6. paulxpack

    paulxpack Registered Capri Power Member

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    Hi reg
    What a fantastic opportunity in the first place
    Finding a genuine x pack with all it's series x options still on the car is a rare find in itself
    Pm sent
    Regards Paul
     
  7. cosworthcapri

    cosworthcapri Registered Capri Power Member

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    Sounds a great find!
    I found this genuine one 2 years back in an old milk float yard in Cardiff. Every extra aside from triples and turbo tail. Also 50k genuine. The owner was a classic car collector who sadly passed away and the cars were abandoned. I was messed about by the yard owner who ended up selling it for £1000 to some escort specialist, no doubt it's sat some where with no axle now!
    [​IMG]
     
  8. TerenceBower

    TerenceBower Registered Capri Power Member

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    What a find! Shame you didn't get it-nice number as well.
     
  9. cosworthcapri

    cosworthcapri Registered Capri Power Member

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    Yeah pity I couldn't get it, there was also a genuine South African perana and a 280 there aswell. They had already been sold for peanuts! The guy who's land it was had claimed them due to no rent paid and was an idiot, at one point he was going to scrap them all!
     
  10. acepower84

    acepower84 Registered Capri Power Member

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    This car was on ebay i think last year or early this year. It was also quite talked about on here so looks like it may have been sold on to an enthusiast after all.
     
  11. mgentry90

    mgentry90 Registered Capri Power Member

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    It's a real shame when people get hold of things and not know what they have, like me sometimes but in this case the landman and these cars, wonder if the others are still around today.
     
  12. cosworthcapri

    cosworthcapri Registered Capri Power Member

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    That's good to here that it got saved then. I'm sure I know the guy who bought it and all he does is buy capris and Capri parts and takes the axles and struts then sells what's left, but the cars get wrecked in between. Any links to what happen to it?
     
  13. ian2800

    ian2800 Registered Capri Power Member

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    The red one sold on ebay for about 3500 in that state, then appeared again a few months later with new paint and triples for £10k. Looked nice.
     
  14. cosworthcapri

    cosworthcapri Registered Capri Power Member

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    Cool glad it got saved and not ripped apart for another escort. Il keep an eye out for it at the shows.
     
  15. TerenceBower

    TerenceBower Registered Capri Power Member

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    Ah,now I remember it-quite a few doubts as to its true value as I recall.
     
  16. stucapri

    stucapri Restore-A-Ford Trader

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    Problem with that red car is the state it was in and the timeframe for it to reappear for sale looking lovely, I expect was a do up job. Not a restoration. Time will tell
     
  17. r2d2hp

    r2d2hp Registered Capri Power Member

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    Thanks all for you help, much appreciated
     
  18. Clockwork Orange

    Clockwork Orange Electrical ??? what like .. bzztt Feck !!! Staff Member Moderator

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    hmmm sounds really interesting, would be good if you could post up some pics after you have seen it ... Hope its in as good condition as we would like
    good luck with it
     
  19. Wilky

    Wilky Registered Capri Power Member

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    Here it is:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160966261324?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D160966261324%26_rdc%3D1

    I'm on my iPhone so found it on google before anyone has an issue with it possibly not being posted 'correctly'
     
  20. Clockwork Orange

    Clockwork Orange Electrical ??? what like .. bzztt Feck !!! Staff Member Moderator

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    got the ad, it looks like the red Xpack that has been compared to the actual find made by R2D2HP

    post is running nicely, unfortunately because the eBay ad now found is a past history shot the pics arent coming up to full size from the thumbnails
    I would have posted them up, but are looking a bit small
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I'll wait for R2D2HP to see the one he has found... ...
     
  21. cosworthcapri

    cosworthcapri Registered Capri Power Member

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    That's the car, good to see it restored. It didn't need much restoration other than paint work as the underside was mint and the interior, so not really surprised it was restored quickly.
     
  22. jds67

    jds67 Registered Capri Power Member

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    The red x pack was just given a top coat and the rivet heads and a few other issues were already visible when it was up for sale for 10k. I think in a short period of time it would need doing again. There were only 3 X Pack cars made as promotional vehicles. They were built to become pace cars at Brands Hatch race track as seen in the first photo. The last photo is my own car and is seen in the last Ford literature Series X. It was then used in several motor publications including the hardback book Capri by Jeremy Walton(last photo). All the other X Packs were sold by Ford dealers mainly RS dealers. The customer chose from the series X option list .
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  23. cosworthcapri

    cosworthcapri Registered Capri Power Member

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    That's cool. I seen mjn on eBay a short period ago. Are u restoring it too original spec?
    Coo260t, was 95% restored about 10 years ago but I never seen it complete, any ideas if it ever was?
    Vhk, a tuning company torque development ended up with it but it had a mk3 series x kit by then rather than a box arch mk2 kit. Not sure if it still exists?
     
  24. hoarsi

    hoarsi Registered Capri Power Member

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    Great seeing the x pack pics have you any more ?
     
  25. hoarsi

    hoarsi Registered Capri Power Member

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    Mjn is such a fantatic and inspirational capri any progress on its resto? Would lov to see it back in its midnight blue with the x decal

    Is coo still about as ive never seen any pics of it at shows ?
     
  26. jds67

    jds67 Registered Capri Power Member

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    Coo is restored but not assembled. MJN is virtually stripped now. I am going to return it back to midnight blue, but not decided on the stripes. I have been busy over the last twelve months acquiring as many nos parts as possible and I am nearly there. Here are a couple of MJN, the white one is how I bought it in the Brands colour scheme. The others are of previous X Packs I've owned.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  27. acepower84

    acepower84 Registered Capri Power Member

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    C22 TLL - was this the swaymar model featured in Top Gear 1987?
     
  28. Brookland32

    Brookland32 Registered Capri Power Member

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    Coo 260t lordy :thumbup1:
     
  29. jds67

    jds67 Registered Capri Power Member

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    No Swaymar made two of these X Packs the one on Top Gear was a 2.9 turbo the sister car to mine. It was destroyed by fire in 1997. Mine was the 3.2 260 bhp and he only surviving one left.
     
  30. acepower84

    acepower84 Registered Capri Power Member

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    Last time i saw that car was at CCI Convention when it was parked next to my fathers Tickford. Must have been 92/93. Shame to hear it hasnt survived.
     
  31. ian2800

    ian2800 Registered Capri Power Member

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    Never seen this photo of MJN before. Might be worth contacting Ford if you haven't already to see if they've got any more pics. I'd definitely put the original X stripes back on, they just look right and make the car I think :thumbup1:
     
  32. cosworthcapri

    cosworthcapri Registered Capri Power Member

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    Some great pics popping up and info on this thread. Anyone know the where snouts of a white x pack with the blue Motorsport stripes on the door reg flm10t? Originally assembled by Norman reeves. A mate of mine owned it years ago.
     
  33. r2d2hp

    r2d2hp Registered Capri Power Member

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    Tell me more about that car as I know where it is. Can you PM with info please
     
  34. 24vcossie

    24vcossie Registered Capri Power Member

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    would be nice to return mjn to original as per pic I like the stripes so much I put them on mine.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  35. jds67

    jds67 Registered Capri Power Member

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    I have got to admit that stripe really looks good on your car and has given me second thoughts!
     
  36. paulxpack

    paulxpack Registered Capri Power Member

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    got to love an x pack,

    [​IMG]
     
  37. cosworthcapri

    cosworthcapri Registered Capri Power Member

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    The white one with the blue stripes is the same as the one my mate had exactly, but his was rhd and possibly the only rhd that came from ford with the blue stripes as a special order. It also had a rs2800t zakspeed interior.
     
  38. r2d2hp

    r2d2hp Registered Capri Power Member

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    Did it also come as a 3.1 from Ford. I believe the interior was lost after tha car was stolen so it now only has the orange stripe seats
     
  39. cosworthcapri

    cosworthcapri Registered Capri Power Member

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    It did have a 3.1 but had lost the triple webbers. By the time he had finished with it had the triples back on and turbo tail etc. the seats were always a mystery so he fitted a mint set of orange stripe in it, various experts saying it had the wrong interior, maybe Norman reeves pulled a few strings at ford to have it fitted. Apparently ended up in Ireland, a guy local to us bought it off him and didn't look after it very well.
     
  40. r2d2hp

    r2d2hp Registered Capri Power Member

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    Fantastic as that what the log book says. Its RHD , has the triple Webber's and retains the orange stripe interior and 7.5 inch wheels.

    I do believe it needs quite a lot of work to bring back to its best but hat said how much would something as rare as this be worth when restored, especially if its the only RHD one made
     
  41. cosworthcapri

    cosworthcapri Registered Capri Power Member

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    As said Norman reeves had it originally and with his Motorsport connections with ford he probably pulled a few strings at ford to purchase it. The only part that was missing to finish it off was the original air box for the webbers. The rivet heads were showing when my mate sold it, the guy who then purchased it didn't look after it and from there on it disappeared. This is the car u know for is it? Flm10t was the original plate.
     
  42. r2d2hp

    r2d2hp Registered Capri Power Member

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    Correct thats the registration number
     
  43. cosworthcapri

    cosworthcapri Registered Capri Power Member

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    Cool, that's a good find then they don't get much better or rarer than that car. Hopefully it hasn't deteriorated too much. Got a load of pics of it some where plus it was also featured in classic ford at some point with colour coded wheels, again the wrong interior and no triples or turbo tail. The previous owner to my mate removed both as he didn't like the fuel economy or the looks. The last part to finish the car off when my mate sold it was the correct air box for the triples, John hill had one, my mate and the then owner of coo260t got stuck into a bidding war that got quite daft, around £500 it was upto at one point.
     
  44. cosworthcapri

    cosworthcapri Registered Capri Power Member

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    Also to add, that the previous owner managed to get hold of through the president of the Rs owners club all the records of series x capris made which he still has, the Rs owners club had also agreed to value and authorise the car as a genuine Rs, he was going through the process of changing the log book, but am in sure if he ever got round to it.
     
  45. Vernon240

    Vernon240 Registered Capri Power Member

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    Hi Reg, I had a good look at this car quite some time ago. As you say, it needs a fair amount of work. The roof had been badly replaced and there was a fair amount of rust underneath. Sounds like it has interesting history, but could be tricky to prove it's provenance. Value wise it's anyone's guess. I don't think anyone on here could give you a value and in any way justify or warrant it. Anything would be a shot in the dark. If, for example, you put it through the whole soda blast and 100% restoration process, There is significant risk you would not realise a profit, at least not in the short term. Having said that, I really did like the car, but not for me....I couldn't afford 3 Capri's that don't make financial sense!
     
  46. r2d2hp

    r2d2hp Registered Capri Power Member

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    Hi Vernon, the chassis number and vin tags all tie up so not worried about the authenticity of the car. You have to remember I have a genuine new shell that could be used legally if it was found to be beyond economical repair.

    In all honesty its probably the only financially viable way to save this car.
     
  47. paulxpack

    paulxpack Registered Capri Power Member

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    hi
    x pack capris are very difficult to restore to the original spec because the series x options are notoriously difficult to obtain as we all know, i was lucky enough to buy good second hand vented discs from germany for the 3.0 ltr bilstein strut. with new struts purchased a few years before.
    the triple weber airbox is also difficult to get a hold of, the cost to try and acquire these parts could make the car a money pit , for me the exclusiveity of the model makes all the effort worth while, they look tremendous

    [​IMG]

    my x pack before i dismantled her

    [​IMG]

    a new triple weber airfilter i managed to source last year

    [​IMG]

    my airfilter box kindly bought 2 years ago

    regards Paul
     
  48. cosworthcapri

    cosworthcapri Registered Capri Power Member

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    That's a shame it has deteriorated that much as it was a mint car 10 years ago with concours potential it was that good, the roof had never been changed and was original too, so who knows what's happend to it in them 10 years! It's definetly worth doing tho as its possibly the only one made in rhd.
     
  49. Vernon240

    Vernon240 Registered Capri Power Member

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    Hi Reg, what I was meaning is that proving that it's a right hand drive RS will be tricky...unless that is what it says on the log book of course!

    Yep, your new shell could actually be perfect for this car!

    Even so, what someone would pay for it is the uncertain bit. Not tempted to keep it for yourself? :boxedin:
     
  50. jds67

    jds67 Registered Capri Power Member

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    First of all I would like to say this is an interesting find.
    As this story has evolved it seems that Norman Reeves may have requested the original spec on the build, but does that make it an RS ? I'm not so sure.
    It seems to me to be an S with various X Pack options and 2800t interior, but has a link to a known previous keeper.
    I am very opinionated with regards to re shelling although this might be the only way forward with this car I feel it will change its identity and surely devalue the vehicle compared to keeping the original shell.
    I remember a certain Gordon Spice X Pack for sale some time back and there were lots of issues with it not being the car it portrayed to be( not that I viewed this myself for verification ).
    As Vernon says it is difficult to value.
    It would certainly creat a lot of interest that's for sure!
     
  51. cosworthcapri

    cosworthcapri Registered Capri Power Member

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    It's a very interesting car. As iv said one of the previous owners had been in touch with the president of the Rs owners club who was satisfied it could be classed as an Rs and was in the process of getting the log book changed. Not sure if this ever happend after as he had to sell the car. It seems to be the only rhd one, Norwegian Capri guy on here has an identical car obviously lhd, I believe a limited edition for Rs dealers in Europe?
     
  52. zodev6s

    zodev6s Registered Capri Power Member

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    Change the roof??
     
  53. Clockwork Orange

    Clockwork Orange Electrical ??? what like .. bzztt Feck !!! Staff Member Moderator

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    the car that Norwegian Capri guy has got is one of a limited edition - only 100 built by Ford ... not a dealer option -- 3.0S Xspecial
    the Mk2 3.0S Xspecial was built as a specific batch of 100
    [​IMG]


    the Mk3 version was initially built as a batch of 50 because Ford where worried it wouldnt sell due to the fuel situation, they sold, Ford built a second batch of 50.
    The president of CCD has 2 of these, 1 heavily modified and fully TuV'd registered H
    [​IMG]


    and 1 in the final throws of a rebuild to completely standard spec ... and thats 1 of each batch !
     
  54. bahamacharger

    bahamacharger Registered Capri Power Member

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    I have pic's of both those car at The Ford Halewood Plant and the 30th Anniversary of the Capri. Great day out that was.
     
  55. r2d2hp

    r2d2hp Registered Capri Power Member

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    I was advised yesterday by a very knowledgeable person that all xpack "so called factory built Capri's" were actually built here in the UK at RS dealerships and then shipped to the Continent. The LHD ones were labelled as RS but the RHD one as series X.

    Be interested to know what Norwegian Capri guys log book states (Does it say RS)

    Anyone know anything different?
     
  56. TerenceBower

    TerenceBower Registered Capri Power Member

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    I very nearly bought the Gordon Spice car,chassis CC 001. The paperwork that came with the car contained the build sheet from Tickford. Could'nt understand this as I had been told earlier,by someone who had a lot of Capri Race experience,in period,said that the car should have been built by CCM?
     
  57. Vernon240

    Vernon240 Registered Capri Power Member

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    Hi Reg, I'm having a hard time believing that. While not impossible, it doesn't seem likely to me. I can see the logic of Ford not building them 'at the factory' as that would seriously disrupt the production line for what was a very small number of vehicles. I believe LHD capris were built in Germany/on the continent (I could be wrong there!), so why would you ship cars here, have them converted/built to x pack spec and then shipped back? The zakspeed RS2800's were shipped to Zakspeed, who were also Ford dealers, so I find it hard to believe that cars were built here when Ford dealers in Germany could fit the kits there just as easily.

    Mind you, I'll keep an open mind, but I've not seen anything that would suggest this happened. If, however, you look at the appendix in Jeremy Waltons book it states:

    1978 to 1980 capri X pack.

    Constructor, Ford Werke AG with mods by Ford GB, Ford AVO or Zakspeed
    Type: Ford capri X-pack demonstrators (description applies to full house Ford GB car of the type also used for pace car race circuit work, many of the modifications were also featured in German conversions, though single carburettor engines and slight exhaust pipe modifications were preferred for limited run Zakspeed Capri X-Series'.

    While not gospel, I would put money on Zakspeed building the continental X-packs/RS capris. It seems generally accepted that they built the RS2800 capris.

    Norwegian capri guys car has a single carb and I 'think' had the slightly flattened exhaust tail pipes a la RS2600.

    I'd be interested to hear anything to suggest that they were all built here, but when I hear things like this, I always think 'why would they do that?' and right now I don't see a great reason for this to have happened.

    stranger things have happened, but my gut feel is 'hmm, not sure about that!'

    Thoughts?
     
  58. r2d2hp

    r2d2hp Registered Capri Power Member

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    Hi Vernon,

    The person who passed me this information has photographic evidence of the LHD cars produced here so if I get to see them will post them up.

    If other people actually know different then feel free to post up any the evidence as it would be good to get to the bottom of this

    P.S remember the kits were made by Fibresport a UK company
     
  59. Clockwork Orange

    Clockwork Orange Electrical ??? what like .. bzztt Feck !!! Staff Member Moderator

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    sorry to say.. bolllox ... GB production, Xpacks may have involved boreham or other factory backed agents ... but EU / DE production they kept in-house, or a very close partner or close partner over there ..
    best have an enquiry to the capri Club Deutschland .. they have quite impressive links to Ford Factory over there ...

    the german Xpack specials are not linked to GB production at all ...
     
  60. r2d2hp

    r2d2hp Registered Capri Power Member

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    as I said where is the evidence - please ask you contacts as I am told photographic evidence proves otherwise

    just to add >> The chap I spoke to owned one of the 4 x packs produced by Norman Reeves (3 were for racing and 1 for the road) and has done extensive research, now of course that could be wrong but at the moment I have no reason to doubt him unless evidence can prove otherwise.
     
  61. jds67

    jds67 Registered Capri Power Member

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    Jeremy Walton is sure to know. He knew the actual guy who worked on MJN and COO. Also if Norwegian Capri checks the fitment of the X Pack as far as I am aware the German cars were glued on and the British cars were riveted.
    Notice on the photo below all the German cars seem to use the later style shell with the towing eye visible.
    [​IMG]
     
  62. Vernon240

    Vernon240 Registered Capri Power Member

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    Hi Reg, it would be interesting to see evidence of the cars being produced here.

    The key to this one is probably with capri club in Germany, as I agree, I believe they have much closer links with Ford over there compared to our almost non existent connections with Ford here. Ford in Germany seem to celebrate their heritage far more then here, which is a shame.

    I still have to wonder, if this did happen, why? Ford had links with Zakspeed, they definitely fitted these kits, it was a German venture to produce the 3.0 RS and at the time, there was no love lost between Ford GB and Ford GmbH. Additionally, as the RS brand was very much in it's heyday then, why not offer an RS capri at the time in the UK if the cars were made here anyway?

    Still, stranger things have happened!

    Just one other thought. We all know that the chassis plates state where cars were built, so the key question, what does Norwegian capris plate say, and what does the plate for the car you have seen say?
     
  63. r2d2hp

    r2d2hp Registered Capri Power Member

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    Hi Vernon, I was looking thru Jeramey Waltons Capri development history there seems to be little info relating to the X pack cars. Appendix 3 as you mentioned does cover Capri X-Pack where it says Ford Werke AG with mods by Ford GB, Ford AVO or Zakspeed.

    In Sporting Fords version by JW it mentions the Zakspeed Capri Turbo sold through German RS dealers but not badged as an RS product suggesting there were only 200 made.


    Its mentioned that there were 200 x-series produced, 100 in 79 and 100 in 1980 but have been advised that there was actually only 28 produced in total. That does not include all the later converted cars.

    If you have any contacts in Germany who have real facts behind these cars would be great to see it
     
  64. 68 Bullit

    68 Bullit Registered Capri Power Member

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    Just to disrupt the flow that you guys have about the origin of these wonderful wide body Capri's. Is anyone still making a correct bodykit for Mk2 & Mk3 Capri ?
     
  65. r2d2hp

    r2d2hp Registered Capri Power Member

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    I believe Fibresport still make the kit for the Mk3. Think the MK2 was lost in the fire.

    Think Smith and Deacon may make the kits as well
     
  66. Clockwork Orange

    Clockwork Orange Electrical ??? what like .. bzztt Feck !!! Staff Member Moderator

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    write to Capri Club Deutschland , info@capri-club-deutschland.de
    http://www.capri-club-deutschland.de/index.php/der-club/der-vorstand
    1.Vorsitzender:Malcolm Beresford
    geb. 1957 in Plymouth, GB verheiratet
    technischer Angestellter
    Capri III 3 L Spezial, 1978
    "Amanda"
    m.beresford@capri-club-deutschland.de

    there I am sure you will get the correct answer, there is at least 3 of these 'fabled' cars 1xMK2 and 2xMK3s

    earlier in this thread it was asked if you could compare the VinTags to see where they were built ... would reckon that they are all GA coded, because the UK production ceased at 1976, so there will not be any BB coded cars after that so it would be fair to assume that even the Mk3 Capris that were converted in UK will actually have been built in or supplied from Kóln.. and unless they were supplied as blank shells, they would have VinTags fitted which would show the GAEC coding...


    as for the towing loop on German cars, they had them both at the rear,( and a bolted on one at the front on the chassis leg) way before it was added to the GB market cars, mainly because it was a legal requirement in that country
     
  67. r2d2hp

    r2d2hp Registered Capri Power Member

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    Yes its GA but we sort of guessed that. I will email the club and see what they say and request to see any supporting evidence - thanks
     
  68. Kovar

    Kovar New Member Capri Power Member

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    To: Paulxpack. Hi, please...do you have some tip, where is possible to buy new airfilter for airbox with 3 carbs? Thanks
     

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